If there is going to be a failure of will, it will be on the Sunday funny shows if the usual cartoon cast of Biden, Lieberman and Roemer are hauled out to defend the neo-con-Rove-Bush "cut and run" or in DLC speak "stay the course" policy.

The first clue will be who the M$M chooses to feature  for their line up, which should be announced tomorrow morning. After that it will depend on whether the warmonger wing of the Democratic Party finally gets it, or continues to attempt to defend their Bush lite approach to neverending religious wars in the Middle East.

Let's give GW another fake talking point... just go along with the sound bite politics.  I'm sure glad we beat that straw man up with the GOP... bipartisanship for all... we... faux bi partisanship that will be great copy for FAUX News.

I couldn't be prouder of the house leadership.  Someone give that bitch a wedgie, please.

Now granted the GOP Resolution didn't have the introductory language Democrats would have preferred, but the ultimate issue was whether you favored an immediate withdrawal from Iraq. Congressional Democrats are split on that issue, and it appears that a lot of those unhappy about how Bush has conducted the war think there is a job that needs to be finished in some fashion. By voting in favor of the Resolution, House Democrats neutralized the issue in the short-term and deflected criticism from those who don't favor an immediate pullout.

But is that strategy really any different than the initial 2002 vote on the use of force in Iraq? I can see Democrats who support the war thinking yesterday's vote was helpful to their position, but the anti-war Democrats would seem to be grasping at straws by suggesting the overwhleming vote in favor of the Resolution doesn't strengthen Bush's postion.

I do have common ground with Paul on Pelosi. She is an embarassment. No, not Torricelli type embarassment to the party. But she is embarassing for someone who has so much visibility in the party. She has undermined people like Howard Dean in the past. She is frequently unprepared for followup questions on news shows with her lack of quick thinking. Maybe all that botox on her face deadened her brain cells too.

I do feel good about the tone of the debate.  Finally people are getting angry, and are willing to fight.  Where were these people in August 2003?  Probably reading polls.  

Now, 6 months ago, maybe I would have agreed with you. But the collapse of public support for Bush puts this in a whole different context. And Pelosi knows this.

And you're wrong about the headlines. The headlines are all about the chaos, confusion, and GOP veteran-bashing in the House.  

By making it near-unanimous, Pelosi rendered it meaningless. That kept the focus clearly where it needed to be.

It was a brilliant maneuver.

And, FYI, I'm more anti-war than you ever dreamed of.  But I don't just want out of this one. I want to stop the next one. And the next one after that, too.

Sunday, Nov. 20

Exclusive! Rep. John Murtha, D-PA, on his plan to redeploy U.S. troops from Iraq.

As it is I think they did fine. In fact this whole thing turned into a disaster for the Republicans. They really made assholes out of themselves and that was before they let Jean Schmidt talk.

As it us... unfortunately this war will go on and the dying will continue. There ain't much we can do about that at the moment... very unfortunately.

We need to get more democrats elected and we need to do our best to make sure they are progressive democrats that understand war is the absolute last option and that America is not an imperial nation.

This country has lost it's way and our leadership is not honoring the pact we make as a nation with those serve in the armed forces. You guys put your life on the line and we make sure that you are the best trained, best equipped, and... and this is the important part... that we never send you into harms way unless there is no other choice.

The leadership of this nation has broken that pact. They have failed you and they have failed us. We must replace them.

This is a battle that will start MONDAY morning in the press when everyone is paying attention.  This is one of those times where the SPIN is the most important in shaping public opinion.  I just want to point something out though to those who feel Pelosi failed...

If you pay attention you can see the state of mind of the GOPers...THEY ARE SCARED.  

This action was taken out of fear.  And they are certain whether they can right the ship.

Look at when the vote was and that shoudl provide you proof.  The old GOP, brimming with high approvals and confidence, would have a done a challenge like this during the day on a Monday.  That way, they could maximize the amount of press coverage and steer the agenda of the press for the week.  Instead they held it on a friday night, when a majority of the country is not paying attention and just doesn't care.  That way if they failed, it wouldn't be seen as widely.  They lack confidence right now.  THat is great to see.

This didn't get a lot of coverage.  I only saw it pop up on a few news sites as a headline story.  

IMHO, this whole thing benefits us.  Worst that I feel will come out of it is... the media ignores the whole thing and every remains where they were... advantage us.  

Best case, people get pissed, especially if the Dems point out they tried to bring a resolution with a 6-12 month timetable to the floor, but the GOP said that it was either pull them all out now or not at all.  On Monday, Pelosi, Dean, Murtha and the rest need to be spinning this fight like mad, and generating favor in the press.  Point out the polls supporting withdrawal.  And maybe even show Schmidt calling a decorated Marine a coward... if you really want to get nasty.  Hopefully her opponent can get that footage for a few commercials.

Pelosi could not possibly have demanded that the entire Democratic Caucus abstain or walk out on the vote. The most extreme power a House or Senate leader can exercise is calling for a leadership vote, or pulling a seat on a committee. If they exercise either option they better have the support of 99% of the caucus.

The House Democratic Caucus was 100% behind Jack Murtha and they did exactly what the entire caucus agreed to do. It would have been political suicide for Pelosi to try and demand that Jack Murtha and his supporters do anything except what they were determined to do as a matter of principle and personal honor.

Fact: When time came to debate the actual vote on the resolution, Jack Murtha was the only speaker given time to speak. Jack Murtha defended himself and defended his personal honor. The rest of the Democratic Caucus was 100% in agreement with Jack. The fact that three Democrats voted for the resolution proves that Pelosi did not call a leadership vote. Pelosi let every single Democrat exercise their conscience on a matter of conscience.

I don't know why any of this even requires explanation it is so plainly obvious. Attacking Pelosi instead of Hastert and Duncan Hunter is insane unless you are a troll.

I guess there is a third option. In addition to being a troll or insane there is the excuse of total political naivte. I was assuming that anyone who was commenting had the political background of a politically aware high school student. Thinking Pelosi could have controlled the vote or conduct of anyone on this issue does not meet that low hurdle.

Don't blame me if you define yourself by the positions you take.

The debate these days is between just withdrawing or withdrawing and then turning the entire shithole to beaded glass.

The veterans are particularly pissed, especially the young guys who don't have the taint of WWII idealism on them.

The Gulf veterans, not surprisingly, are pissed because we didn't do the job right the first time.

The Nam vets are pissed because they know this tune.

The Korea guys no a quagmire when they see one.

And the Iraq guys . . . well, most of them are just happy to be home and be out of the service (actually, my brother-in-law's little brother, our last Iraq vet in the extended family is getting out of the service here before December and is already stateside).

Ah . . .

I'm with Goodman on this one.

This ain't about politics.  Screw that!

This about the fact that our soldiers have done what was needed of them, and somehow Nancy Pelosi and the Dems rewarded the soldiers by not doing what was neeeded of the politicians.

Jack Murtha's right, and he'll win even more votes to show for in 2006.

Just watch.

Rumsfled is on the run because of how Pelosi and the Democrats responded to Duncan Hunter's resolution. If you want to see the real fireworks, don't miss Murtha's appearance on Meat The Press.